[Home] [Databases] [World Law] [Multidatabase Search] [Help] [Feedback] | ||
England and Wales Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) Decisions |
||
You are here: BAILII >> Databases >> England and Wales Court of Appeal (Criminal Division) Decisions >> Copsey & Anor, R v [2008] EWCA Crim 2043 (16 July 2008) URL: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2008/2043.html Cite as: [2008] EWCA Crim 2043 |
[New search] [Printable RTF version] [Help]
CRIMINAL DIVISION
Strand London, WC2A 2LL |
||
B e f o r e :
MR JUSTICE SILBER
MR JUSTICE SIMON
____________________
R E G I N A | ||
v | ||
NATALIA COPSEY | ||
GRAHAM WILLIAM COPSEY |
____________________
WordWave International Limited
A Merrill Communications Company
190 Fleet Street London EC4A 2AG
Tel No: 020 7404 1400 Fax No: 020 7831 8838
(Official Shorthand Writers to the Court)
Mr R Ferry-Swainson appeared on behalf of the Crown
____________________
Crown Copyright ©
"JUDGE BARNETT: Do you accept that she said something along the lines like, 'I couldn't return your money'?
A. I would've referred to the agreement, your Honour, but the main thing I always say, is put things in writing. Because obviously a decision needs to be made.
JUDGE BARNETT: The impression you are giving is that you cannot return the money.
A. I can't make that decision.
JUDGE BARNETT: Well, that is what you seem to be saying to that particular person.
A. To that particular client, obviously, but... JUDGE BARNETT: Not, I am going to have to consult with the director to see whether we can return your money.
A. To be honest with, your Honour.
JUDGE BARNETT: You did not say that, did you?
A. I would normally say...
JUDGE BARNETT: You did not say that, did you?
A. Sorry, I didn't say.
JUDGE BARNETT: You did not say, I am going to have to consult with the directors before I can tell you what is going to happen.
A. As I say I can't remember that specific client and what was said, it was a long time ago.
JUDGE BARNETT: You did not specifically say that, which is probably what you said should have said. A. I normally say, 'Please put it in writing', your Honour, to be honest with you. That's what I probably say."
We are particularly troubled by the repeated questions of the judge which were in the nature of cross-examination which ended with the words "did you?" In our view, this exchange would be perceived by a jury as showing that the judge did not believe Mr Copsey. The judge then moves on, at page 97, when evidence is being given Mr Copsey to say: "Is that right?" and then he goes on to say that he is puzzled about the way the matters had been handled.
"JUDGE BARNETT: As a matter of interest, why did not your wife write this letter and sign it herself, as was coming from a company?
A. Well, your Honour, it was always the person that signed it that was the point of contact with the customer.
JUDGE BARNETT: I know that, but by now the thing is becoming unbuttoned, as it were, in terms of a contract?
JUDGE BARNETT: Generally speaking one might have thought, although it does not always follow, that somebody such as a director who would be able to bind the company would write this sort of letter. A. As I say, your Honour, I can't answer for my wife. It's her company, she runs the business as she sees fit."
"It happens to be the company mobile phone that lives in your pocket is it?
A. Sorry, your Honour.
JUDGE BARNETT: It lives in your pocket.
A. It lives in my pocket in the office, yeah, where my wife is as well."
"JUDGE BARNETT: ...we are looking at this block of correspondence.
A. That is because it was drafted by my wife.
JUDGE BARNETT: Yes, that particular letter.
A. That particular letter was drafted by my wife so obviously she got the detail correct.
JUDGE BARNETT: The other ones were not?
A. It was me.
JUDGE BARNETT: You see, I, at no stage by the looks of it from the documents does your wife actually sign a letter on behalf of the company, in this correspondence, does she?
A. In this correspondence, what we are talking about here, your Honour...
JUDGE BARNETT: Does that strike you as strange or not?
A. It's just the way my wife runs the company, your Honour.
JUDGE BARNETT: What through you?
A. No, not through me. She runs the company the way she sees fit and obviously she does exactly the same now. I mean nothing has changed. It just doesn't happen to be myself as a customer service consultant.
JUDGE BARNETT: She did not sign any letters now.
A. I don't know what she signs. She may sign some letters.
JUDGE BARNETT: All right, just a moment. She runs the company. She does not sign her letters that she has drafted.
A. As I say she may sign other letters, I mean, obviously you will have to ask her it is not my..."
The judge then goes on to show some documents to Mr Copsey and ask questions in relation to them. There were in fact, at this stage, five pages of transcript, in which the judge was questioning Mr Copsey and a typical exchange is to be found at page 24D:
"JUDGE BARNETT: But just bear with us all, you seem to tell us, you told us many times that you wrote a number of these letters. I am so sorry, that she wrote a number of the letters and you signed them.
A. Yes, a number of, the other type of letters, yes. JUDGE BARNETT: Some letters you wrote but under her instructions.
A. Like this one.
JUDGE BARNETT: Are you telling us there were letters that you wrote that she never even saw?
A. She wouldn't have seen a basic letter like this because she had already instructed me to send an acknowledgement letter out. It is literally a letter to say we will be contacting them in due course or 14 days.
JUDGE BARNETT. So page 94, she would not have seen, A. She would not have seen the basic letter, no. JUDGE BARNETT: Because she had just instructed you.
A. She just instructed me to send it off and that is why the mistake was there because I think if she had of checked she would have seen it.
JUDGE BARNETT: Yes, very well."
A few minutes later Mr Copsey was being questioned about signing a letter to a Miss Irvin. At page 32 the judge says:
"JUDGE BARNETT: Which is you signing that letter to Miss Irwin.
A. That's correct. Again, that would have been drafted by my wife.
JUDGE BARNETT: Now that effectively is saying you are not cancelling the agreement and she has written saying prior to that, you probably remember, 'that I have been waiting for a long time and I can't afford to go to Australia.' A couple of sentences. You appear to write back do you not?
A. Sorry, yes at that time the letter was obviously drafted by my wife and I signed on behalf of the contact.
JUDGE BARNETT: It is the usual story that she drafts the letter.
A. Yes.
JUDGE BARNETT: And you sign it for some bizarre reason.
A. That is the way the company is run."
I pause at this point to say that we are concerned that the judge had been questioning Mr Copsey in a hostile manner at this point and that he felt right to describe one of the pillars of the defence as "some bizarre reason".